Curse

Ryssul Sylverhart · Jul 13, 2009, 12:31 PM // 12:31

I think at some point in time, ArenaNET would've had to announce that they were working on another game, or at least had their heads turned in another direction, and Guild Wars I. It's inevitable.

However, I think the biggest mistakes that were made is what was stated above: 1) Not at all focusing on the game that is still out there, and 2), not telling us any information about what is to come in the next game.

When I play Guild Wars, I basically feel like I'm blindly playing the game. There is little to no content updates anymore except for rehashed quests (like the Z-quests and find Nicholas' crap) and more ways to title grind. We're all just being told to fill fill fill the Hall of Monuments, but have NO idea what the Hall of Monuments even does or why we're doing it (except that it'll supposedly have some kind of bonus for GW2). It's basically like ArenaNET screaming, "Don't ask questions! Just do it!" and expecting everyone to continue playing the game like mindless drones for the next...X amount of years.

If you're not going to give us any more content except grind, at least give us some sort of incentive on why we're even doing it and give us some kind of goal in sight. Tell us about GW2. It doesn't have to be the entire synopsis or something; just make us excited to work towards filling the HoM. Give us some kind of objective to be filled instead of trusting us to faithfully keep playing a dying game we don't even have an idea what it's going towards. Just saying that "It's a bonus!" is just so darn ambiguous, I don't even care. Give us some more screenshots, a little snippet of lore, information on game mechanics--something. I can see why people think this game is vapourware; they just suddenly dropped the information-flow like it was hot.

And if you're not going to tell us about GW2, at least give us a reason to ride the old one out to even go to the new game (if this is their plan. For all I know, maybe they don't care if the playerbase leaves, as long as they come back for the next game). Give us some content updates that isn't just a bloody carrot. How about new quests? Or throw in a mission somewhere or maybe something in the style of the Titan quests? Heck, you can even make some quests that'll tie in to GW2 or something and give us some new lore to look at. I think at this point, I'd even take another copypasta dungeon as long as it's not another "Here, redo these same quests over and over again so you can get something pointless like 3582905382529-coin storage bag or a moss spider! YAY" update. But with no new content, no goals in sight, and no information on the new game, I'm with Upier. It's harder to keep my interest here every day. Which makes me sad, because I love GW1. It's sad how they're going about this, IMO. They must have some REAL loyal followers.

4thVariety · Jul 13, 2009, 01:00 PM // 13:00

Some things were certainly strange. Arenanet got a huge number of pages to promote Eye of the North, yet that totally got lost in the middle of the GW2 announcement/lore. ArenaNet cannibalized their own attention.

Then after announcing GW2 they went dark about it. Real dark, deep dark. Name one other game that ever did that? (The Duke Nukem jokes start right about here) Usually games are announced and then produce a steady stream of news. Take any game on the market as an example. Once the title is out there, more things will follow at least once a quarter. Even if the game is two years away, some things will still be made public. (Even if it's only some art to go along the lore. e.g.: Dante's Inferno) As far as non-GW players are concerned, the brand GW2 is already back at square one. If you do not play GW, you have a 99% chance of neither knowing it exists, nor knowing what a GW2 is. Which makes the initial special in PCgamer all the more pointless.

Other NCsoft titles suffered the same fate before. Who knew Auto Assault even existed? What did people REALLY know about Tabula Rasa gameplay before it was released? Which future Aion customer can flame the bullet points of "why Aion is superior" on the forums? Compare that to Warhammer or Diablo 3 and you will know the difference. Especially the Warhammer marketing positioned it as a superior PvP game, whether it is true or not.

So on the one hand ArenaNet was extremely forthcoming in saying what they are dedicated to do next. But that also resulted in a fair share of customer frustration when nothing followed up on that initial announcement. Our current knowledge is the same it was in MARCH 2007. That is not good by any standard. Judging from the initial announcements made about GW2 it is fair to assume there were either setbacks, or the project got even more ambitioned; possibly both.

boxterduke · Jul 13, 2009, 01:15 PM // 13:15

Not sure if it was a mistake or not but I really think that the population in GW1 is diminishing.
Gone are the days when towns are full of people (I'm not talking about Spamadan,LA or Temple of Balthazar)
But I think they made a mistake by not having a beta yet.
At least show us the beta or do beta weekends like they used to do with GW1 and that will keep people playing GW 1 when the weekend is over.
If people see how GW 2 will benefit from having done stuff in GW1 then that would help them out more.

arch psyker · Jul 13, 2009, 01:23 PM // 13:23

I don't think so. You really need to look into Arenanet's history. I'm talking about right to the beginning. The three main developers associated with Arenanet all came from Blizzard. They also worked on all three of their major titles: Diablo 2, Starcraft, and World of Warcraft.

What you are seeing here is the same thing that Blizzard did basically. Announced Starcraft 2 and here is some info to tide you over until we are done. Announce Diablo 3 and here is some info to tide you over until we are done.

Granted that Blizzard did release cinematics, alpha gameplay, etc with their announcements but they also have the cash cow of WoW to support them that they can just put an entire team on one project without have to worry about going belly up.

I think it was a wise move to announce Guild Wars 2. Let's just hope we get some information soon and maybe a closed/open beta some time in the next year. There is still PAX this year, never know what could happen since Arenanet has been active there every year.

Ghost Omel · Jul 13, 2009, 01:29 PM // 13:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by arch psyker

I don't think so. You really need to look into Arenanet's history. I'm talking about right to the beginning. The three main developers associated with Arenanet all came from Blizzard. They also worked on all three of their major titles: Diablo 2, Starcraft, and World of Warcraft.

What you are seeing here is the same thing that Blizzard did basically. Announced Starcraft 2 and here is some info to tide you over until we are done. Announce Diablo 3 and here is some info to tide you over until we are done.

Granted that Blizzard did release cinematics, alpha gameplay, etc with their announcements but they also have the cash cow of WoW to support them that they can just put an entire team on one project without have to worry about going belly up.

I think it was a wise move to announce Guild Wars 2. Let's just hope we get some information soon and maybe a closed/open beta some time in the next year. There is still PAX this year, never know what could happen since Arenanet has been active there every year.

Logic + Looking at the bright side of the situation + facts + hope + positive attitude= A very nice posts that sums up evrything that the question asked.. Any-sayers you have been defeated.

Aeon221 · Jul 13, 2009, 01:30 PM // 13:30

This is a game, not your significant other. Quit flipping your bean and find something else to have a crazy psycho freak out about, folks.

This is like freaking out because Orek hasn't released any new information about their new vacuum cleaner. OMG OMG OMG I HAS TO KNOW ABOUT DA SUCTION!!

Abedeus · Jul 13, 2009, 01:33 PM // 13:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngeliqueSynner

I personally don't think it was a mistake announcing it.
Even if it takes 5 more years to beta, I think it'll be worth it.

Driver 3 took near 5 years concept to release, and look at how much better it is compared to 1 and 2. :]

Patience, grasshoppers. Patience. :]

...What.

Driver 3 is one of the worst games of 2005. It holds a 40 on Metacritics.

...5 years and the game is WORSE than any of the prequels.

Unless you mean that GW2 will fail just like Driv3r failed, of course.

Tenebrae · Jul 13, 2009, 01:37 PM // 13:37

Mistake to announce ? depends on what they are doing .... if they do know what they are doing ofc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Socrates The Mauler

Recently I've seen the layout for classes in Aion. This diagram looks Exactly like the back of every Magic: The Gathering card ever made.

I only play GW now because nothing free has come along to replace it yet. GW2 had better blow my mind, cuz I won't be playing a 20 year old concept, free or not.

Well you should look at Lineage2 Classes then , it looks EXACTLY ( except 2 names ) like that. I dont really see pointing Aion like something that must be discussed here :/

JR · Jul 13, 2009, 01:43 PM // 13:43

If they hadn't announced GW2 then we would all be sat here either wondering what the hell they were doing, or speculating as to why they aren't telling us what new game they are working on.

Neither is preferable.

Gun Pierson · Jul 13, 2009, 01:45 PM // 13:45

They had no choice but announce it. The real mistake is the business model as they don't have enough recources to work on both GW2 and GW1 so we should have had real new content to bridge the gap until GW2.

Anet expanded way too slow because of their business model, they have 165-200 employees working for them, Blizzard has over 2700 in the meantime. Yes you read that right, 2700.

ApocalypseAzza · Jul 13, 2009, 01:46 PM // 13:46

What has put me off Guild Wars now (logged in about 4 times in the past 8 months) is the fact that there are so many smaller things they could do to bring back lots of players, e.g. more AB maps, or just more maps for all types of pvp.

Creating a whole new expansion takes some time, but seriously, will it take them that long to make a few more AB maps to keep people interested, or more HA maps. What about new armour or weapons, surely its not that hard to create, you dont need a whole new story behind any of these things apart from

"The Kurzicks are now attacking an area that looks different for once where they have discovered more jade"

Ctb · Jul 13, 2009, 01:58 PM // 13:58

Quote:

I think it was a wise move to announce Guild Wars 2. Let's just hope we get some information soon and maybe a closed/open beta some time in the next year. There is still PAX this year, never know what could happen since Arenanet has been active there every year.

The Great Pumpkin is coming this year, he really is Charlie Brown!

JR · Jul 13, 2009, 01:59 PM // 13:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun Pierson

They had no choice but announce it. The real mistake is the business model as they don't have enough recources to work on both GW2 and GW1 so we should have had real new content to bridge the gap until GW2.

Anet expanded way too slow because of their business model, they have 165-200 employees working for them, Blizzard has over 2700 in the meantime. Yes you read that right, 2700.

You can blame a slower development cycle on the business model, but to call it a mistake?

The Guild Wars chapter based model was fairly revolutionary, and can certainly be described as successful. I doubt that the game would have been anywhere near as big a hit had they gone the subscription route.

Gun Pierson · Jul 13, 2009, 02:12 PM // 14:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR

The Guild Wars chapter based model was fairly revolutionary, and can certainly be described as successful. I doubt that the game would have been anywhere near as big a hit had they gone the subscription route.

Nobody will deny that the model was revolutionary and I agree it's part of the series' success, but you have to put things in context. In the long run it's a mistake as they can't deliver, which is a serious problem especially for a game like GW.

Mordakai · Jul 13, 2009, 02:15 PM // 14:15

Look, the original business model could not continue indefinitely: 2 professions and 100s of new skills per Chapter? When GW is already bloated with useless skills?

Smart of Anet to stop when they did, and start working on GW2.

And better they take a long time to get it right, so we don't see GW mistakes again in GW2.

JR · Jul 13, 2009, 02:16 PM // 14:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun Pierson

Nobody will deny that the model was revolutionary and I agree it's part of the series' succes, but you have to put things in context. In the long run it's a mistake as they can't deliver, which is a serious problem especially for a game like GW.

Whether or not they can deliver on Guild Wars 2 is yet to be seen. Thus far they have run a profitable and successful game.

Is your arguement that it was a mistake because they can't keep generating content for a five year old game whilst developing the sequel? I'd say that's fairly bad logic, as it's an approach that seems to work fine for ANet.

slowerpoke · Jul 13, 2009, 02:16 PM // 14:16

announced or not, we would still be none the wiser as to what exactly is gw2 or when it will appear

Gun Pierson · Jul 13, 2009, 02:34 PM // 14:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR

Whether or not they can deliver on Guild Wars 2 is yet to be seen. Thus far they have run a profitable and successful game.

Is your arguement that it was a mistake because they can't keep generating content for a five year old game whilst developing the sequel? I'd say that's fairly bad logic, as it's an approach that seems to work fine for ANet.

I was not talking about GW2, they will deliver on that. But the plan was that GW1 would have campaigns and expansions like MTG. Campaigns and expansions are the life blood of such a game.

MTG is over 10 years old, it would have died as fast if after 2 years they would have made no more expansions, but it's still around. Another example would be EVE and that's even subscription based. GW stopped after 2 campaigns and one expansion.

They have a monopoly in this segment of the market and if they would release an expansion tomorrow, it will sell. So not only is the current situation a mistake, they missed some serious oportunities especially in these times. GW has a lot to offer for that price and people look for good deals and spend money on entertainment in times of crisis.

Like you say, it works fine for Anet it seems, but do you work for Anet or do you play their games?

If nothing changes, GW2 will suffer the same fate. It will still work for Anet, but the playerbase will be screwed again when they start working on another game.

Gonzo_Neo · Jul 13, 2009, 02:35 PM // 14:35

No, the error is the lack of information about GW2 ( No screens, no confirmed jobs , no videos etc...only artworks ), and new zones or armos in GW ( 2 years if new explorable areas, elite zones or dungeons is much time).

Still left 1-2 years until GW2 is realeased, and if arenanet think that the community still play until GW2 release they are wrong, and if they think "Well doesnt matter, in GW2 everybodyl comeback ueeeee" i think they are too wrong.
More and more people of old community of GW migrate to WoW or other MMO games because they are tired ( i play since beta and im tired, most people of my guild have 30 max title and some rank 9 and they are migrating to WoW because the lack of new content like new expansion each 6-9 months ¬¬U or updates like Furnance Sorrows or DOA time a go), the Star Wars Kotor Online is going release soon too, Aion ( well this is more money for NCSoft......). And when the this people have a good guild in his new games, toons of hour play like they had in GW.

Did arenanet think they comeback and quit his new community to suffer the same update lacks when GW2 have 2 years ?

I think no.

Sorry for my english :S

draxynnic · Jul 13, 2009, 02:38 PM // 14:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by arch psyker

I don't think so. You really need to look into Arenanet's history. I'm talking about right to the beginning. The three main developers associated with Arenanet all came from Blizzard. They also worked on all three of their major titles: Diablo 2, Starcraft, and World of Warcraft.

What you are seeing here is the same thing that Blizzard did basically. Announced Starcraft 2 and here is some info to tide you over until we are done. Announce Diablo 3 and here is some info to tide you over until we are done.

Granted that Blizzard did release cinematics, alpha gameplay, etc with their announcements but they also have the cash cow of WoW to support them that they can just put an entire team on one project without have to worry about going belly up.

I think it was a wise move to announce Guild Wars 2. Let's just hope we get some information soon and maybe a closed/open beta some time in the next year. There is still PAX this year, never know what could happen since Arenanet has been active there every year.

Which is pretty much what I was about to say, this discussion having essentially gone cyclical - ANet WANT to do a big Blizzard-style release, but because they were stuck with having to explain why GW1 was being (essentially) stopped, they had to let people know about GW2 well before they were ready for the big Blizzardesque release.

Ideally, of course, they would have got away with it the way Blizzard does by producing/supporting other games in parallel (ie more GW1), but keeping in mind the failures NCSoft had had around that time, it's probably safe to say that this didn't happen due to a resource allocation issue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by apocalypseazza

What has put me off Guild Wars now (logged in about 4 times in the past 8 months) is the fact that there are so many smaller things they could do to bring back lots of players, e.g. more AB maps, or just more maps for all types of pvp.

Creating a whole new expansion takes some time, but seriously, will it take them that long to make a few more AB maps to keep people interested, or more HA maps. What about new armour or weapons, surely its not that hard to create, you dont need a whole new story behind any of these things apart from

"The Kurzicks are now attacking an area that looks different for once where they have discovered more jade"

Yes.

Linsey has actually described how much effort it takes to make a new map and, well, it's not exactly trivial.